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 Posted: Sep 14, 2019 03:25AM
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Lyn, pictures are a must to help identify this mini. If the front wheel spindle nut is exposed, a picture of that with a tape measure next to it would be nice.

 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 02:02PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyn00357
Thanks Doug.
So heritage certificate will tell us that, but as we know it has had an engine change to the 1275, how do we know if that is an S engine? I think that it is, as some of the engine number listing pages I have looked at, would suggest so!
Do you know of any bodies where we can get more info on when the engine was changed? Would the heritage folk have that info?
I have tried to explain all of this to my sister and she is up for getting the Heritage cert. even though it may have no more than we already know.
Think we need a medium / spiritualist to talk to him!! lol...
The Heritage certificate will supply and confirm a lot of details but it is not 100% as it can only translate the numbers what are given to them.
A lot of Mini's over the years had their identities changed as it is so easy to do with just two screws or rivets holding on the vin plate, i am not saying that is what has been done to this car in fact i very much doubt it based on the length of time it has been owned.
Without going back and reading all the comments here here are a few things to notice.

KA2S4 is a Morris Cooper or Cooper S vin number prefix.

9FDSAY is a 1275 cc 1965 Cooper S engine.

The Cooper S engine has two extra suds/bolts which are at the ends of the rocker cover on the top of the engine.

There is also a body number if the car still has it's original front panel where the grille mounts to usually consisting of a letter and a few numbers. It is located to the left of the bonnet latch and is stamped onto a small approximately 2 inch x 1/2 inch plate, this number will hopefully match the Heritage certificate.

There are some date codes on the car a couple of easy ones to look for are on the wiper motor and the boot latch. They are 4 digit codes example 14 63 which would translate to the 14th week of 1963 as a build date for that part.

A 1963 Cooper or S will have a lot of small identifying differences over a stock 1963 Mini and some pictures will verify this.

Enjoy your holiday.

If in doubt, flat out. Colin Mc Rae MBE 1968-2007.

Give a car more power and it goes faster on the straights,
make a car lighter and it's faster everywhere. Colin Chapman.

 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 12:23PM
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No worries Jim.  I just didn't want Lyn to be looking for things that may not be on her family's car.

Doug L.
 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 10:03AM
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Doug, you are correct with the details. For some reason I had a 1967 pictured in my head when I was describing a quick visual. Jim

 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 06:26AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyn00357
...thank God I hear you say!

Not at all!  The fact that this thread has now reached 3 pages indicates you have created a topic of interest to a lot of people.

Have a great time.  Come back refreshed and ready to sort this out!

Doug L.
 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 05:39AM
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Cheers Doug.
Going on holiday next week so all will be quiet from me for a while, thank God I hear you say!

Lyn

 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 05:29AM
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Lyn, we know that this car has some changed parts so the Heritage Certificate will be very informative.  It is a build record for the configuration of the car when it left the factory.  I encourage you to talk to your family members and invest in a certificate.

From previous posts we know that the engine has been changed.  The crossflow head on that engine is not common.  The oil cooler mentioned above was an option when your car was built... it may or may not be present.  Until 1966 the cooler was mounted vertically under the dyamo so the slam panel brace mentioned above did not become "angled" until that time.  Small disk brakes were on Coopers and 7-1/2" disks on the -S while regular Minis left the factory with drum brakes on all corners.

When you get a chance please take (or have a family member take) some pictures of the car and post them here.  It would be very helpful to see pictures of the engine, engine bay, dashboard, inside the boot, front of the car, rear of the car, the doors (outside and inside), and the headliner.  I am sure others will suggest additional areas where photographs will help.

I apologize.  I don't remember if you have posted the engine number before or not.  You can ask the Heritage people about the engine number but I doubt they will be able to tell you anything about it.  If you post the full engine number along with some pictures of it I am sure members here will be able to help you identify it.

Doug L.
 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 05:27AM
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6464 
???????
Sorry don't understand!

Lyn

 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 04:36AM
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A quick visual is a "S" engine will have 11 head studs and nuts. You have been saying that your head is a cross flow. The internal parts are different in a "S" engine. A large damper below the fan blades. Oil cooler.

If this is a Cooper, you should have disc brakes BUT the small 7 inch diameter and 1/4 thick. 3/4 thick drive shafts. 90 MPH speedo, vertical slam panel brace.

 Posted: Sep 13, 2019 02:24AM
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Thanks Doug.
So heritage certificate will tell us that, but as we know it has had an engine change to the 1275, how do we know if that is an S engine? I think that it is, as some of the engine number listing pages I have looked at, would suggest so!
Do you know of any bodies where we can get more info on when the engine was changed? Would the heritage folk have that info?
I have tried to explain all of this to my sister and she is up for getting the Heritage cert. even though it may have no more than we already know.
Think we need a medium / spiritualist to talk to him!! lol...

 Posted: Sep 12, 2019 04:20PM
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Sorry.  I am not trying to confuse you.  That "frame" number you mentioned will be what we are calling the VIN (KA2SA....)   

If you contact Heritage with your VIN/chassis/car/frame number, the certificate you receive from them will list that chassis number and the serial number of the engine that was in the car when it was built.  It will also list the day the car was built, the day it was sent to a dealer, and any factory installed accessories/options.  

Doug L.
 Posted: Sep 12, 2019 02:00PM
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Hi Guys,
Excuse my ignorance, but I am getting well confused with VIN numbers, engine numbers  etc. is not the Frame number the VIN number as on the registration document?
If so we have both the Frame number, KA2SA/382207 and the engine number 9FDSAY3207 and engine capacity 1275CC

 Posted: Sep 12, 2019 01:27PM
 Edited:  Sep 12, 2019 01:35PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tagus
I would suggest asking what the engine number is that is the match your VIN...

Tagus, the Heritage Certificate already includes both the "as built" VIN and engine numbers.  

Perhaps I misunderstood you.  Are you suggesting providing Heritage with the engine number for what is in the car now to learn where the engine was originally installed?

Doug L.
 Posted: Sep 12, 2019 12:23PM
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CA
I would suggest asking what the engine number is that is the match your VIN...

I know they are tightening up with regards to information that they release but I it's worth a try. Include a link to this discussion along with your request.

 

Cool

 Posted: Sep 12, 2019 11:50AM
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Thanks for the advice Tagus, oh my what question to ask though?
as I said previous not original engine we have established that, as 1275cc didn’t come out until 1964!
waiting for the uncovering of the engine to get and check numbers etc.
did contact dvla but as car is still in her late hubbys name they won’t give any info, so she has to change registration document first into her name.

 Posted: Sep 12, 2019 11:06AM
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Regarding the Heritage Certificate. Not sure if they still do this but when I bought my Cooper S project you could ask Heritage one question for a nominal charge, I think it was 10 pounds. For mine, before I went through with the purchase, I asked if the engine number was a match to the VIN number. It came back positive. I also got information that would have been on a certificate such as the build date. Perhaps someone was a bit over exuberant? I kept the email as my "heritage certificate".

If they are selling this car perhaps the question to Heritage could be Cooper or Cooper S? Cheaper than the cert.

 

Cool

 Posted: Sep 12, 2019 05:20AM
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6464
you are correct, the body of the car is a cooper but with the research so far I think it is cooper s engine installed by previous owner, who apparently used it to tow his racing mini.
the car has been in the family since early to mid seventies so my brother remembers a fair bit about it, he is sure it has the cross flow engine thing,  it we have yet to dig it out of the garage which is heaving with boxes of car parts from minis triumphs and Vauxhall’s, I will update and post pics when able but it could be a while.

 Posted: Sep 12, 2019 05:01AM
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I think it was something like about the 10th post we established it was ...or rather is ..a 997 Cooper...

But we’d still be interested to see pics of the (alleged?) cross flow head.

Cheers, Ian

 Posted: Sep 12, 2019 03:44AM
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Doesn't sound like a genuine Cooper S. Everybody wishes they had a Cooper S or tries to make one adding bits and calling it one.

 Posted: Sep 11, 2019 01:42AM
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This link works in the UK.

https://www.britishmotormuseum.co.uk/archive/heritage-certificates

https://www.britishmotormuseum.co.uk/archive/heritage-certificates

Car engines make CO2 and trees absorb CO2. By running your engine you're feeding a tree and helping the environment.

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